Curse

El Chialde · Mar 13, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

This is my Pve build
anyone wanna give some constructive critism

im a warrior with a hammer build i made
[Hammer War;OQASE5JThF7gJOxRiP3l3FYc]
i have a zealous hammer of enchanting

these are my heros builds
all are necros
the first is a blood necro
the second is a necro healer
the third is a mm

the template codes are as follows

[MM;OANDUspNSLVlMHVoBTfVVbhNfA]
[Healer;OAhiYwh8IOjmSzJ3wccWVvYA]
[Blood Nec;OAhjQwGaIOqwZ4QDq+GmYV1kLA]

any improvments are welcome but u need reasons for changing the builds
no saying so and so is crap use this instead, u need a valid reason why its crap and why the other skill is better

Dzjudz · Mar 13, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Maybe you should consider switching out a hero for a smiter with strength of honor? I'm currently running this on a hero of my assassin. Don't know how much it would improve on a hammer warrior though (slower attack rate).

Also, I would suggest switching out Preservation for a better elite. A random heal every 4 seconds isn't very helpful (spirit doesn't know who to target and it can't react to a spike or something). Xinrae's Weapon or Weapon of Remedy can be nice.

The MM build is fine (putrid bile is always nice on a high death magic mm though).

Dont Nerf The Perma · Mar 13, 2010, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Swap yeti smash for brawling head butt and crude swing for "For Great Justice!"

marmar256 · Mar 13, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

SV is not the best elite in PvE as you should be trying to have lots of health not little :P
Healer Hero (Pres Hero) Is alright but its a bit to overboard imo and i dont like pres as an elite. I run 12 Resto, 8 SR and 10 Channelling SPlit on Mine for splinter and SoS.
MM heros is nice.
Im not a hammer fan so my comments arent really useful on your bar.

El Chialde · Mar 13, 2010, 03:27 AM // 03:27

i considered changing preservation for somthing else but it tends to heal the person with lowest health, im my experiances tho

xinrae's and wor tend not to work as well

also i find that having the blood necro the healer doesnt have to heal as much because when anything dies while hexed with blood bond it heals adjacent allies for 127 with awaken the blood enchant up

SV works wonders on the healers of the foes party as it works for healing their allies

and couldnt find a better blood elite

yeti smash lasts for 3 seconds with my warrior and i can knock off 4 hit with renewal before my target gets up and the aoe kd is worth it after my target gets back up i can use ab and whirlwind strait away so i dont need fgj it just seems a waste to me

Chthon · Mar 13, 2010, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

This is my Pve build
anyone wanna give some constructive critism

im a warrior with a hammer build i made
[Hammer War;OQASE5JThF7gJOxRiP3l3FYc]
i have a zealous hammer of enchanting

these are my heros builds
all are necros
the first is a blood necro
the second is a necro healer
the third is a mm

the template codes are as follows

[MM;OANDUspNSLVlMHVoBTfVVbhNfA]
[Healer;OAhiYwh8IOjmSzJ3wccWVvYA]
[Blood Nec;OAhjQwGaIOqwZ4QDq+GmYV1kLA]

any improvments are welcome but u need reasons for changing the builds
no saying so and so is crap use this instead, u need a valid reason why its crap and why the other skill is better

OK... you're running junk like Preservation and insisting you only want incremental skill-by-skill changes. Um... No. The whole thing is crap. You need to completely start over.

Player build is crap.
New DBS is cute, but interrupts, even AoE interrupts, are just inferior to KDs as disruption.
Yeti's adr loss is a major problem.
Both of these issues have been gone over recently in the warrior forum.
The solution to both is to suck it up, quit trying to be a unique snowflake, and go back to Earthshaker builds because they're still just plain better.
If you really, really want to stick with DBS, at least heed the advice to use Brawling Headbutt instead of Yeti.
Also, no SY! is a damn near mortal sin for any warrior, and especially a H+H warrior.

Blood build is crap.
SV is marginal outside of big bosses.
Vampiric Swarm has awful cast and recharge for low damage.
AtB is not inherently bad, just not good enough for a skillslot usually.
Vital Weapon is bad, like all temporary health skills, especially because the hero won't even try to maintain it. It's basically a caster Endure Pain.

This entire build should be scrapped and replaced with an Orders+SoH build with Blood Bond and MoF. That alone should greatly increase your damage. (Run phys hench to take full advantage of Orders. Even if you don't, since the build contributes basically nothing right now, OoV affecting just you would be a major improvement.) Use smiting and monk unlinked to get the removal the team needs.

Resto build is flaming crap in a bag.
Preservation is a junk skill. Its heals are random. The only reason it feels to you like it's not wasting heals is because the overall build is so ineffective that it leaves lots of empty hit points for Preservation to fill. Even if it wasn't wasting heals, it's still mathematically inferior to both non-elites Life and Recuperation.
The bigger problem is that you've got a build with 6 redbarups that are almost totally redundant and no mitigation whatsoever (and you're not running SY!).

Scrap the whole build and replace it with a E/Mo ER ele. PS spam is far more valuable than redundant redbarups. Infuse is a superior spot heal to anything else when you eliminate both the energy and life costs. And the weaknesses of ER are covered elsewhere: OoV+BloodBond is more than adequate diffuse party healing. If you need more, run DSorrow on the MB. Condition removal can be better handled by the Orders+SoH and/or the MB (Foul Feast+ Infuse Condition).

MB is least crappy of the bunch, for what that's worth.
Expensive, long recharge minions are a bad call on a bomber build. Go Bone Minions if you want to bomb.
Cure Hex can be dropped b/c the Orders+Smite can cover it.
SoLS can be dropped because changing the minions solves the energy problem.
Maso can be dropped because you're bombing, not trying to get damage or survivability out of the minions.
Withering Aura should be replaced with Enfeebling Blood at relatively low spec because (1) EB gets better coverage, (2) WA interferes with OoV, and (3) you dropped Yeti from the player build so you don't need the proc.
Purely optionally (as opposed to everything else I've written, which is pretty much mandatory crap cleanup), you can swap JB for a removal elite (Empathic Removal, Signet of Removal, It's just a Fleshwound) if you need more removal.

El Chialde · Mar 13, 2010, 05:33 AM // 05:33

im running a 3necro team build but im sick of using sabway and discordway
as i said at beginning i just want to edit these builds to make better
not have someone flame me for trying somthing new.

now do u have improvments for the build instead of changing entirely?

End · Mar 13, 2010, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

im running a 3necro team build but im sick of using sabway and discordway
as i said at beginning i just want to edit these builds to make better
not have someone flame me for trying somthing new.

now do u have improvements for the build instead of changing entirely?

While he could have been nicer about it...(wow I feel like such a hypocrite but I'm trying to start being nice)...His main points still stand...the reason he ripped apart the entire thing is because...quite frankly the whole thing is inferior...

While I like the new DBS myself I would never put my build on here and ask people what they think of it because I know it is inferior to ES...I just have fun with it...Really...don't post a build if your not prepared to see it shredded...

I myself however would keep the n/rt healer...although change the build a bit to be more like...OAhiYwh8YtlmTuq6wccCASuA...(see I kept most of it in there for ya...and the res isn't an important difference just personal preference) with Weapon of Warding or Foul Feast in the open slot depending on the situation...(granted this could just because I'm an ele at heart and hurt to think of them being forced into healing)
Otherwise...yeah I totallly agree with what's already been said...

Edit: may I also recommend some splinter weapon lovin on that minion bomber?

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 13, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

im running a 3necro team build but im sick of using sabway and discordway
as i said at beginning i just want to edit these builds to make better
not have someone flame me for trying somthing new.

now do u have improvments for the build instead of changing entirely?

The builds Chthon recommended are far from discord/sabway...

Why make a thread asking for recommendations if you stubbornly grasp onto your build?

marmar256 · Mar 13, 2010, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Agreed with Arrogant

El Chialde · Mar 13, 2010, 10:02 AM // 10:02

although u say its inferior it works quite well i just want to fine tune it so it can work anywhere
i would like to keep the blood necro the mm and the n/rt healer
i just want to see how i can change the builds without changing how it plays

Crassus Praetor · Mar 13, 2010, 12:12 PM // 12:12

You would be dropping a N/Rt healer for an E/Mo healer,
a MB for a better MB, dropping one weakness spreader for a better weakness spreader, AoE interrupts for AoE interrupts (KD).

The biggest difference is SV for OoV, although they are both in blood but OoV will help more.... oh wait...

So basically if you insist on keeping the Elites, the worst parts about the build, then there really wasn't any point in posting.

Following these changes will improve it whilst keeping most of the general idea the same.

If it had been suggested that you just scrap it all and take a perma with 3 Ranger heroes, yes that would be something to complain about.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Mar 13, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

im running a 3necro team build but im sick of using sabway and discordway
as i said at beginning i just want to edit these builds to make better
not have someone flame me for trying somthing new.

now do u have improvments for the build instead of changing entirely?

Why would you get sick of something that does better?

Bloody Dominator · Mar 13, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why would you get sick of something that does better?

Cuz its boring, pressing crtl + skill and seeing everything goo boom does get boring after a few times.

Anyways, for the bomber build id take "animate bone minions" for more bombs and then take out the other minion skill for Putrid Bile. And "Withering Aura", i dunno, better of speccing in curses and taking "Enfeeble"
On the blood magic guy, replace vital weapon with splinter weapon or something. Since ur doing AoE dmg on ur main char, splinter will add more.
And still might wanna consider an Orders Hero instead, as suggested before.
As for the rit, maybe make it /Mo and take SoH on it for more dmg.

Edit: and drop that awfull rez signet, take SY or something usefull instead

Daesu · Mar 13, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why would you get sick of something that does better?

Since he is a warrior, PLEASE don't ask him to use discordway. I don't think Chthon is asking him to go discordway either. We just had a thread over at the warrior forum about this.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...html?p=5082469

Sabway makes a little more sense for a warrior, but sabway is outdated and you can do better. This is what I have been using for my warrior:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10429464.html

Basically you should have a healer (red barring), and protector for HM. The good 3-heroes build nowadays involve using spirits and minions. If you dont want to use minions since you are melee, or you can't (e.g. low corpses areas), you can also replace the MM with an orders necro (see link above).

Chthon · Mar 13, 2010, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

im running a 3necro team build but im sick of using sabway and discordway
as i said at beginning i just want to edit these builds to make better
not have someone flame me for trying somthing new.

now do u have improvments for the build instead of changing entirely?

No. These builds are so bad it's just not possible to fix them incrementally.

What you're asking is akin to asking a mechanic to repair a 1950 Chevy that was wrecked in an accident, stripped for parts, lit on fire, then dumped in a lake for 60 years, and yet you balk when he tells you to just buy a new car.

And, for the record, you seriously need to re-read my post if you think I'm suggesting anything even close to sabway or discordway.

ac1inferno · Mar 13, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

im a warrior with a hammer build i made
[Hammer War;OQASE5JThF7gJOxRiP3l3FYc]
i have a zealous hammer of enchanting

The build itself is not bad, but the attack combos could use some improvement:

[build prof=w/x hammer=12+2 strength=12+1+1][crude swing][whirlwind attack][optional][optional][optional][for great justice][Dwarven Battle Stance][dwarven stability][/build]

Optional slots for:

- The Yeti Combo: Provides AoE Knockdowns.

-- [["You Are All Weaklings!"]
-- [[Yeti [email protected]]
-- [[Crushing [email protected]]

- The Brawling Combo: For better energy management and Knockdown.

-- [[Brawling Headbutt]
-- [[Renewing [email protected]]
-- [[Pulverizing [email protected]]

- The Auspicious Combo: For better energy management.

-- [["You Are All Weaklings!"]
-- [[Auspicious [email protected]]
-- [[Fierce [email protected]]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chialde

these are my heros builds
all are necros
the first is a blood necro
the second is a necro healer
the third is a mm

If you are going to use three necro heroes, people are going to tell you to use Sabway since its kind of the best build for that. If you don't like it, try to use a mix of professions:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...ng_hero_builds

End · Mar 14, 2010, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Can we just get this closed...guy asks for help...
people tell him what they think needs to get fixed...
instead of looking and thinking *hmm this might just work* he insists that he doesn't want the builds changed (specifically he wants to keep the worst part of each build)
so there's really nothing to say..
all its going to do is cause arguments with no one budging because people are to thick headed to take advice for what it's worth...
basically don't ask for advice if you can't take it

mage767 · Mar 14, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Just let him play what he likes. He will soon encounter areas where his builds won't work, and he will then change them himself. Let him grow wise on his own pace.